From The Archives: FKA twigs Interview

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In 2014 I was the online editor and contributing print editor of an Australia-based independent fashion and culture magazine called Oyster. The publication was already 20 years old by this point, but the 2010’s were its golden years. To me at least. Manning a website the way I did then feels surreal now. And makes me anxious just thinking about it. It was a dizzying swirl of “free the nipple #nsfw” this and “Lana Del Ray said what?!” that. But in amongst the 24/7 churn, Oyster championed creatives and their ideas. And it did a pretty good job.

Just before I left the role, Oyster was sold to a now-liquidated company. And then sold to another after that. In between these two transactions, I was assigned—now as a freelancer—to do a cover interview with a 27-year-old FKA twigs. We sat quietly in the back of a dark courtyard, in a cafe, in Surry Hills, on Gadigal country. She was as thoughtful, funny, tired, candid, and sweet and you’d expect.

The boss chose not to publish it as a cover story, as planned, because she didn’t like the accompanying photoshoot. And so it was ditched altogether. It’s been sitting on my dated portfolio website ever since.

So given this Substack exists to discuss creativity, freedom, and many of the themes FKA twigs brought up with me that day in 2014, I thought I would share this archival piece with whoever may scroll through my pre-launched Substack archives and happen upon it. It deserves a reader or two.

Hanging out with FKA twigs, she tells me about the time her hair was accidentally chopped off when she got her dreads re-did. She didn’t notice until she eventually took them out: Her long hair was now two inches from her scalp. Was she shocked? Yeah, but no.

Conceding that for a woman, “Hair is almost like a tool, isn’t it?" twigs relishes opportunities to take those tools away. Much like her twisted conception of "freedom" on this particular day, she didn’t hide her inconsistent hairdo—not behind anything shiny and false. Just messy, lovely honesty. Sometimes, she says, that's the beauty of the thing.

This issue is all about the concept of freedom. What does that mean to you?
I don't really think it really exists actually, which might be controversial to your issue, but I don't want to lie. But I don't think freedom really exists in anything that you do. Like, at the moment I feel like probably one of the most free artists out there in some respects because I've managed to create a world for myself in which it s acceptable for me to wear what I want, say what I want, /not /wear what I want, direct if I want to, produce, write. You know, I feel really free, I don't feel boxed into anything yet. But at the same time, you're bound to so many responsibilities. Whether it's touring, whether it's shows. I can't go in the studio now because I have to sit here and do an interview with you. Do you know what I mean? I can't like write down a treatment for a video because I have to be here with you. So that's not free. I have to do this, otherwise people won't get to see the video that I want to make or hear the music that I want to make, so. When you're an artist, at some point you do become a commodity. And that's just the truth.

How do navigate that?
I'm not just going to sit here and say that I'm not a commodity, because I am. Like I wasn't before I did my record, but now I am a commodity. And there's nothing you can do to stop that. That's just talking about freedom in a selfish way, that's not even going into Third World problems and actual issues of freedom, that's just me sitting here in this vegan cafe with you, talking about my artistic freedom which in some countries maybe even especially as a woman you're not even allowed that. So I don't think there is such thing as freedom in this day and age. And even when you are truly free, you're still telling people you're free on Twitter. You're still like hashtag #freedom 'cause you're at the beach. Well, no you're not free then are you? Because you're attached into something kind of bigger than you. We're not free.

I guess people are presented with a lot of false choices, like a Morton's Fork. How do you reconcile all that stuff? Do you just try to appreciate things and be honest and hope that it has some positive effect?
Maybe on a good day. But obviously there'll be bad days and that's okay too. Like, on a bad day, it's awful. On a bad day it's like the worst thing in the world, even though it's a decision that I've made to ensure my freedom. Does that makes sense? But on a bad day, you don't have freedom because you step outside and what you're wearing is analysed and criticised, or hailed. And you just didn't really think about it, you just put something on and stepped out. Or on a bad day, you're making music and doing what /you /wanted to do people perceive it in a certain way. Sometimes a good judgement can be just as harmful as a bad judgement. You know?

Yes, I do.
It's all very complicated and like, for me, I'm an honest person and today's a bad day. But if maybe if you ask me tomorrow, or yesterday, maybe I'd be able to be more positive about freedom, but today I don't think that any of us are really free. Because we're just in this giant rat race on a massive hamster wheel. And obviously it's just all how you perceive it to be. On a good day it could be that that hamster wheel is your lifeline and you're living for it and you love the competition and you feel free within your realm, whatever it is. That's what you wanted to do, that's what you went to university to study. But on a bad day it can feel completely demoralising. I think for me, the only freedom that I feel like I can have is to just try and be honest.

Do you struggle with feeling complicit in some of the stuff that you have mixed feelings about? Like I know you've said on Instagram that you didn't want to be part of any kind of beauty myth.
Yeah because it's not true, you know? Like, none of it's true. I can't explain it but everything's an illusion. It's not true. I don't sit at home with braids. I sit at home with unbrushed, messy, curly hair. I don't sit at home looking gorgeous in a Gaultier dress. I sit at home wearing a t-shirt. It's difficult, because my art and the way I'm portrayed because that's my vision that's 100% me. It's a side of me magnified. But the at the same time, there's another side of things where I'm just a normal person. I feel good sometimes and I feel bad sometimes. Sometimes I feel confident and sometimes I feel insecure. I'm sure everybody in music gets the same thing, where you get like a 14-year-old girl from Utah being like "I wish I was you. Why I am not FKA twigs?" or whoever it is that they want to be and there's a certain guilt. Because I want to say the opposite of that. Like the message I want to give is to be yourself. That's all you can be.

So then, I feel like messages can get mixed up and before you know it, you have somebody perceiving you like, "Oh my God, you're so amazing. You're so beautiful, if only I could be you." But it's not true. I don't feel like that inside. It's not true. It's great lighting. You know, I'm shot by the most wonderful photographers, and one of my best friends is my stylist, who knows what I love to wear, how I can feel cute. And then after we've had the lighting and after I've spent three or four hours in hair and makeup, then I'm photoshopped. None of it's true. It's a struggle, because on one hand I'm such a perfectionist with my work and my music, my beats, the way I sing. Everything has to be so meticulously perfect. So it's a conflict within myself that I'm presenting something as "This is my perfection." People that are into everything that I make, they can see how meticulous I am and that's part of the kind of attraction and appreciation of what I do. So I'm making it with one hand and with the other hand, I'm smashing it down and being like "It's not true," like it's very complicated. It's a massive conflict and I never want to I grew up in a very white area and I was the only mixed race girl in the whole of my school. And no boys ever fancied me when I was growing up and I grew up when it Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera were the hot girls, and I was just basically not that. I looked at Britney and thought "if only I could be like that." So now I never want to make anyone feel like that. Not that I'd be doing it on purpose, or not that I think I'm so great that I would do, but you know, sometimes the things that people say to you, it makes me feel so sad.

That's a lot to take on.
And that's why like, I say maybe there isn't a freedom to be had, other than honesty. I think as a young person it must be so hard to feel free, because there's a million options saying "Be this." Everything's always like "Be this," or "No, be /this/." And even if you fight through all that and make a record exactly how you want to make it, which is what I did with /LP1 /then you want to make more music, but it's like "No, you have to leave home for six months and be in a different place everyday. Wake up in a new city every single day for six months." And it's not really that hard actually. It's exhilarating playing to so many different people and I feel like I have friends all around the world now, which is great. But ultimately, I'm not making music which I what I wanted to do in the first place, you know? It's so difficult and nobody talks about it. Maybe it's just me.

I guess people don't really think about that stuff when they think of their idols, they think about...
The glamour.

Exactly.
And I'm sure somebody will read this interview and think "Stop then. If you don't like it so much, then just stop." But it's not as simple as that. Again, it's what I love doing. It's like a massive circle. I can't /do/ anything else. If you put me in any other work environment, I would get sacked in a minute. I think maybe the only freedom that could be found is to be completely honest with your feelings like saying, "Okay, I feel bad, I feel hurt, I feel ugly, I feel upset, I feel beautiful, I feel positive." But then after that, for me, is always "Today." Do you know what I mean? Because it can change and that's okay as well. *Speaking of young girls idolising you makes me think of how people present themselves in a certain idealised way online versus reality. Do you think that's a hindrance on people's freedom? * Yeah, it's so hard because on one hand it could be viewed as like a positive thing to be able to express yourself and say like "I got a new top today! Hashtag#cutiepie" or whatever.

[Laughs]
On one hand that is great and that's the kind of liberty that maybe in another country, young girls would love to have that but for whatever reason they don't. But you do have to be careful, I guess, to not lock yourself in a box with it or become obsessed with a part of yourself that which is so passing, you know? I mean I'm 27 now. Everything's holding up, I don't have any wrinkles yet, I go to the gym, my body works, I feel healthy. But about about when I'm 37? What about then? Do you think lighting's going to look good on me or do you think that everything's going to sit the same? Do you think that an Amaro filter's gonna, like, hide the fact that I've had two kids and my breasts are a bit saggy? What then? Maybe it will be and maybe it won't be and I won't care because maybe I'll be in a wonderful, loving relationship where it's my mind that's beautiful and my confidence and my wisdom that's beautiful. But I wonder where we're being taught that?

I wonder where we're being taught that really there's so much on the inside that is important. Because I know that Twitter doesn't teach me that and I know that Instagram doesn't teach me that. So where can we go to? Maybe like the one thing where people used to go is reading books. And I never see people reading books anymore. Everyone's on their phones. Like, if I was in an accident and I didn't look like how I do anymore, what would I be able to give? This is all in my opinion. But sometimes the way people say things to each other over the internet is so hurtful I can't imagine what it would be like to be 14-years-old with the majority of my social network on Twitter. Luckily, I was the last generation to grow up with none of that. Anyone younger than me, that's how they communicate. When I was younger, if I wanted to call someone, I'd have to call their house and speak to their parents. Like, "Hello Mrs. Richards, is Becky there please?" [laughs] You'd have to watch what time it was and whether they were having their family dinner. Be really considerate. And that's all gone now and it's gone in the name of freedom. The freedom to communicate 24/7 is ultimately a really positive thing but as humans, perhaps we are innately dark. Maybe we can't help but completely melt everything we touch.

The way people talk to each other has changed so much in a short amount of time.
As soon as you have a picture of yourself out there, it's not real. I wonder whether I've never done anything like that, but if I said something really horrible to someone online (and I could never do it 'cause it's not the kind of person I am), but if I could say it to their face as well. It's awful. At least when you share your feelings with someone in person, tell some homes truths, you know you really felt like that, because you've had to walk to their home or walk into a pub and actually say it. Where can you find any sort of freedom in that level of detachment from another person?

Do you feel like fans who really admire you ever speak to you like you're not a real person as well?
I think I'm quite lucky with people who are genuine fans of my music. I think they re quite, like, self aware people. Otherwise they might not be fans of my music because I think my music's like "Hey are you ready to feel vulnerable? Press play!" It evokes a lot of emotions, whether it's sensual, or restricted. I wanted to be so honest in what I've done and hopefully that brings about honesty in other people in how they're really feeling and just being in touch with themselves. That's why I don't have a 'fandom'. I'm so happy that people who like my music don't call themselves anything. I'm so happy about that. [laughs]

People intellectualise your work a lot. Does that you make you feel misrepresented?
Yeah, it can make me feel misrepresented. Because I'm so 360 in everything I do, sometimes I get this feeling that people talk to me like "Oh, you are art!" No, I'm not art. I'm a girl who grew up in the country the moved to Croydon. It's like the most unglamorous story in the whole world. So I'm really conscious when I do interviews that people don't present me as this /artiste/. Do you know what I mean? I'm still kind of figuring out what I want to do. I'm a really artistic person and I really want to own that, but I don't want to seem pretentious. I'm not a pretentious person. I love bad TV and stupid magazines as much as I love going to see the ballet or opera. People ask me about my creative process like, [puts on posh accent] "Is the silence you grew up with in the country reflected in the minimalist spaces within your music?" It's like, I have no idea. I don't even know what that question means. I make what I feel and it's as simple as that.

You were saying on Instagram the other day that you like being physically strong. Is that a liberating feeling? I feel completely disconnected from my body and I think it does make you feel less free. Like, if I had to run for my life, I'm not sure I'd be able to do it. [laughs]
It does me make feel liberated to know what my strength is and be able to surpass that. I felt very trapped for a long time because of what is perceived to be beautiful and attractive and sexy to men. Which is, for the majority of women, completely unattainable without surgery. It's unattainable to have a waist that's 23 inches and an arse that's like way bigger than your boobs. [laughs] It's not realistic and it's not real. That's not to say that there's anything wrong with that, but not everyone wants to, or has money, for plastic surgery or gym training everyday. I just feel as a girl that's there's only one body type that is accepted. Widely. Which is in many respects a very beautiful body type, but there's lots of different beautiful body types and I think that in the media there's no focus on strength and health and looking after yourself. What about your joints?

No one says "I'm in my mid 20s and I've started doing weightlifting to counteract all of the years of ballet, which is horrific on your body.I'm building up strength specifically in my pelvis, 'cause when you do ballet you turn out your legs like a penguin. I know these are weird things to say, but no one ever talks about this stuff. Everyone only talks about how big someone's boobies are or how big or small someone's butt is. It makes me feel sad. There's a very niche area of the media to be like, "Oh that person's fit, that person's physical able." And even then, it's some women on the cover of /Women's Health/ with a six-pack, which again is so difficult to attain. I think it's better to focus on personal ability rather than looking at other people. Within that, I found my sexy, I found my beautiful, I found my woman. I'm the sort of girl where if I was hanging out with a guy and he came back to my house it would be makeup straight off, hair out.

So yeah, I like to dress up but the other side of that is like, I really enjoy being myself and letting it all hang out. Being able to be funny with someone and knowing that someone loves me because they can't stop laughing at everything I say. That makes me feel good. So being able to do things like rearrange a whole house of furniture by myself those are things that I value and I think I've built that into my music as well. In terms of the production I did on my record. I couldn't produce two years ago. I know it's not perfect, but I'm being the best that I can be. Even when I was mixing, I wanted things to be weird. I wanted the snare to be too loud, I wanted /this/ too quite and /that/ too loud.

Because that's how it was recorded and that's I felt in the studio. So that's how it supposed to be. I could have got a producer at the end to come smooth everything out and make it cleaner and more socially acceptable, but I didn't. That's the beauty of it.

For Oyster Magazine Issue #106 (unpublished)
Photos: Drew Jarrett